Attorney General Drummond says SCOTUS tie preserves religious liberty in Oklahoma

Attorney General Gentner Drummond says the U.S. Supreme Court’s 4-4 tie effectively upholds a state ruling barring a Catholic charter school from operating with public funds. Drummond called the tie a victory for religious liberty and a clear affirmation of the separation of church and state in Oklahoma.

>>> Oklahoma religious charter school: U.S. Supreme Court deadlocks, rejecting state-funded schools

Here's the transcribed interview with AG Drummond after the ruling on Thursday:

Watch the interview in the video players above.

Q: What does this Supreme Court tie mean for Oklahoma?

A: “I am overjoyed that religious liberty has been preserved in Oklahoma. As it relates to Oklahoma, the Oklahoma Supreme Court ruled that you can't violate the separation of church and state, and the Supreme Court affirmed it through the 4-4 tie. This is binding precedent on Oklahoma. Other states are free to try to attack the Constitution if they so wish. Hopefully they have attorneys general with integrity, like Oklahoma does.”

Q: Was the tie itself significant?

A: “No. I think as it relates to Oklahoma, the Oklahoma Supreme Court ruled that you can't violate the separation of church and state, and the Supreme Court affirmed it through the 4-4 tie.”

Q: Why did the state’s case prevail?

A: “I think certainly that was meaningful, but also I think that a plurality of the court grasped the fact that Oklahoma's charter school system is 100% wholly controlled by the state. So when you form the school, fund the school, oversee the school, the teachers are eligible for retirement on the state teacher's system. The board and administration are subject to open records, open meetings. It is a state entity. And our Constitution and, frankly, the federal Constitution are unambiguous. We cannot establish religion. And that's what this is.”

Q: How does this differ from religious hospitals that receive public funding?

A: “That hospital exists independent of the state and the federal government. St. Isidore Charter Public School would not exist but for the state creating it. And I think that that was grasped by the four. And I think that the four who voted against it simply did not grasp that very subtle but significant distinction.”

Q: Do we know which justices voted which way?

A “We will not know. I suppose it was Chief Justice Roberts who stood with the Constitution in Oklahoma, and that four of his colleagues did not. And I think they're excellent jurists, but I don't think they fully grasped the subtleties of the charter school program.”

Q: Is there a chance this issue resurfaces in another way?

“A: Oh, I'm certain that this governor in the next 19 months will go find some Wicca school or Satanic school to make applications so we can prove his point. But this Attorney General will stand with religious liberty until my last dying breath. We have to have separation of church and state so that we, as citizens and parents, can indoctrinate our children in our faith and instruct them on how we believe. Not a teacher. I want my teachers to teach reading, that would be lovely, math, science, history. Let the parent derive the religious choices of their children.”

Q: Would allowing a Catholic charter school have set a wider precedent?

A: “Hey, if it's good for one, it's good for all. And I think if the Supreme Court had decided to basically erode the separation of church and state, then we would find a patchwork of chartered public schools across the United States. And I think in Oklahoma, we would quickly have applicants that were qualified, but of a religious bent that would make the average citizen in Oklahoma's head explode.”

“I don't think the governor woke up to history in 2018 and doesn’t fully grasp the Constitution or the ramifications of our Constitution. And that's why it's so important to always elect an attorney general who is steeped in the law and has high integrity and convictions.”

Q: Did you see a rise in Christian nationalism tied to this case?

A: “No. I see that there are those that would like to eviscerate the separation of church and state, and they're thinking short-sighted. They're thinking we are predominantly a Christian nation, and that we need to have Christian schools. But if you open the door to Christian schools, you've opened the door to radical Sharia schools, Wicca schools, Satanic schools. You name the variety of sects of religion out there, and we will be funding them. And I don't think the average taxpayer in Oklahoma wants to do that.”

Q: What other cases has Oklahoma had before the Supreme Court this year?

A: “So actually, the state of Oklahoma had three cases before this Supreme Court this year, and it's amazing. We won on Richard Glossop, who was, I confess, ever, and we are not now putting him in the death chamber under inappropriate pretext. He will be convicted, litigated. We are going to set him for trial this fall, and he'll have a fair trial, but probably the same result. But Oklahoma won there. We have an EPA case that was argued in March that will probably be ruled in our favor by June. And then, of course, the separation of church and state, which, with a 4-4 tie, shows a victory for Oklahoma.”

Q: Will other states attempt a similar charter school plan?

A: “I think that so long as it's the Catholic Church pushing it, then I think Amy Coney Barrett will continue to be recused, and that will always be the same result, 4-4. I think if it's somebody other than the Catholic Church, I give Justice Barrett high marks in her ability to think independently of politics, and I believe that the verdict would be 5-4 in favor of the separation of church and state.”

REACTION: Gov. Stitt, State Supt. Ryan Walters release statements on St. Isidore case